How Ali Nasir scaled 10,000+ MHC pads with 45+ years of expertise and billion-dollar portfolios.

Ali: We have a saying in my ancestral language: roti kapra makaan. It translates to food, clothing, and shelter. Those are the top three essentials. If you're providing one of those essentials, like shelter, and within that you're providing the most affordable form of shelter, the most affordable form of the American dream to own a home.

Host: Welcome everyone to our Hero Capital show. I'm your host, Tim May, and today I have another amazing guest with us. Mr. Ali Nasir is a nationally recognized expert in manufactured housing communities with a lifetime of hands-on experience and a proven track record of transforming underperforming parks into stable, high-yield, inflation-resistant assets. Raised in a multi-generational manufactured housing community family and trained in commercial valuation and entrepreneurship through Harvard University's Extension School, he blends deep operational knowledge with strategic insights that few in the industry possess. He is the managing partner at Rise 360 Ventures, where they help investors unlock durable cash flow, accelerate value creation, and capitalize on one of the most resilient and misunderstood asset classes in real estate. Everyone, let's give a huge Texas welcome to Ali. Share with us a little bit about your background and your family. Apparently you go many generations in this. Along the way, explain why you use the term manufactured housing community versus mobile home park.

Ali: Thank you very much, Tim. That was a long introduction, and you did a great job with it. Before I get into myself, I want to thank you for the opportunity and congratulate you on your recent event. I'm on several different threads and chat groups, and everybody's raving about it. We connect on several levels you may not be aware of. Aside from our common friend, Colm, and I'm glad to see Eric on the call as well, who's done some amazing things here at Rise 360 for us, I've lived in your hometown of Sugar Land, Texas. I was a member of Sweetwater Country Club for years. I landed in Houston in January 2008, right at the beginning of the Great Recession, so I have fond memories of Houston. The background in a nutshell: I'm eighth generation in commercial real estate, Tim.

Host: Wow.

Ali: Yes. My kids, who are now teenagers and the oldest is 20, are soon to be, hopefully, ninth generation in the business. We go back to India, to the land bartering and land banking days, and I was able to trace that at least eight generations back. I'm second generation in the manufactured housing community space by choice. I'm 56 years old, and in my adult life I've seen several other asset classes and done many mainstream deals. I've touched a lot of things, but I've been in this space for the last 45 years by choice.

Ali: To answer your question about terminology, we went from being called trailer parks and mobile home parks, and we were considered slumlords. Now we've suddenly become the darling asset class. The transition came from leaders of the industry saying, we're really a community. This is where residents live. It's not just a park. And these homes are hardly mobile once they're set in place. Moving them again is cost prohibitive and very difficult. So why call them mobile, and why call them parks? They are manufactured homes that meet HUD code requirements, just like stick-built homes, in communities where residents live and thrive. That's the reason for the change.

Host: That's really good. As you talk about eight generations in commercial real estate and two generations in manufactured housing communities, I was thinking, why not hotels? What happened?

Ali: That's so funny. True to the tribe, we have done hotels and motels in the past. I come from the same state of India that the Patels come from, who are famous for the transition that's happened in that space since the '70s. But my father is a lone wolf. He's a serial entrepreneur, one in a billion, simply because he's an incredible entrepreneur. He leveraged the same things you might have seen in the hotel and motel space, where you got the benefit of living on site when it was absolutely necessary.

Ali: I want to emphasize that, because we got into this business right after the last Iran war. This was the late '70s. At the time, my father had about 120 homes in Orange County, California, which are probably worth $1.5 to $2 million each today.

Host: Wow.

Ali: Those 120 homes came down like a house of cards and collapsed overnight. People couldn't pay their rent, and no one could buy or sell. Everything collapsed when rates went to about 20 percent, and we found ourselves starting over. I was about 12 years old, and my father had the insight to buy his first community with what he was able to salvage from those homes. It was enough for a down payment. Compared to the Patel story, where they lived in motels, we lived on site. I lived in a trailer park at 12 years old, starting over. It's been an incredible journey from that one trailer park to building a family office over the last 45 years, with thousands of units. I don't want to get into overall wealth or asset value, but it's a journey that comes from being an operator. I don't mean to diminish anyone who is a sponsor, but I'm a true operator who cut my teeth in this space.

Ali: I also went on to study valuation and become an appraiser. Not for the money, because even as a commercial real estate appraiser, it's not great money. I was learning all the street smarts at home, and I wanted to make sure we also had the book smarts. So aside from formal education in entrepreneurship, I became an appraiser to make sure I understood underwriting well. I think you can make money in any real estate asset class without being a genius, and I'm certainly not one. But I'm very passionate about this particular asset class and why it supersedes all others.

Host: That's amazing. Let's dive into that. There are two things I'd love for you to expand on. First, why you love this asset more than any other. Second, given what you experienced through the last Iran war, how do you think this time might affect this asset and other real estate assets, because who knows how long this war is going to go on?

Ali: Why this asset class? I don't want anyone to just take my word for it. You can go on any AI platform and compare all the asset classes. One of our team members, Karen, did exactly that. She compared tenant retention, operating expenses, cap rates, and about 40 different metrics across every asset class within commercial real estate that we could. By far, there was roughly a 70-point difference between us and the next asset class in total points. I'd love to share those slides with you or anyone else.

Host: If you have it, I'd love to see it as part of this call.

Ali: I'd love to share it. We have a saying in my ancestral language, roti kapra makaan, which translates to food, clothing, and shelter. Those are the top three essentials. If you're providing shelter, and within that the most affordable form of shelter, the most affordable form of the American dream to own a home, this space has proven itself. I've seen it from the original Iran war, the savings and loan crisis, the dot-com burst, some challenges around 2003, 2008, and 2020 with COVID. Each and every time. And to include your second question, even with this crisis, I'm super confident this asset class remains resilient because it provides an absolute essential at the most affordable level.

Ali: I always say that in a good economy, our business does well. In a down economy, our business does great. As things get more expensive and people come down a lifestyle notch, we're the last stop when it comes to affordable housing.

Host: I don't know how much you're into economics and how this war might affect real estate, but based on your past experience, what are you seeing on the horizon for the industry?

Ali: Thank you for asking. I'm a geek when it comes to economics and geopolitical issues. I'm agnostic when it comes to politics. For us as investors, it's all about the math. And it's not just the war. Our focus right now is on Iran and oil, but a lot of other things are happening directly or indirectly because of it, for example the yen carry trade. Eric Willis, who is on the call, has talked with me about the anticipated commercial real estate defaults on all those interest-only loans written in 2020 that have been extended for as long as possible. Those are all coming due. By most people's standards, that's at least half a billion dollars in CRE, and some people think it's far greater. That's mostly in office and retail, maybe some hotel and motel, with some in multifamily. Those defaults impact all of us. They impact our ability to borrow and the bond rate, and we all understand how important the bond rate is to our business. The battle that isn't spoken about, over rare earth minerals and global reserve currency status, is building in the background and is very relevant to how Main Street will be able to borrow.

Ali: I don't have a crystal ball to know when the downturn is coming. It could be within the next six months, maybe within the next 18 months, but I think it's inevitable because of the math. When it comes, it will be an opportunity for investors who are ready, who are liquid, and who are willing to do creative deals and step away from the herd. The herd, I believe, will be sidelined. You'll see more seller financing and master leases, even triple net master leases within communities, as opposed to direct sales. Creative deals will be coming.

Host: Within manufactured housing communities, some people focus strictly on the pads, just renting out the land. Some also own and rent out the homes, and some do owner financing. Which aspects do you focus on, and why?

Ali: At the risk of sounding a little arrogant, I think my father and I were some of the pioneers in developing the business model most people consider conventional today. We weren't the only ones, but we were among the early folks, and it's still being done very well today by many people, including us. The structure is to be vertically integrated. You own the community, but you also have a dealer arm that buys and sells homes within your community. Where it's permitted, and this is not legal advice, so check your own state, you might become the finance arm providing retail financing on the homes you sell. Or, now that there are actual lenders available, which there weren't when I started, you might provide secondary financing when buyers need help with costs like installation or transportation that aren't included in the home financing. And of course you have asset management and property management built in.

Ali: The model is to be vertically integrated but keep these components separate, so community ownership is independent of the income and sales of the homes. Once you start mixing income from real property, the lot rent, with personal property, the manufactured home, you're skewing your valuation. For those who rent homes out on their communities and mix that rental income with lot income, that's a big no-no. Agency lenders don't like it. Bankers and appraisers don't like it. I think the rule by most lenders today is you can go up to about 20 percent of your pads with rental income like that, but it's generally frowned upon, and I suggest you don't do it. Keep it arm's length, like the structure I described.

Ali: That structure has proven to work, and I think it will continue to work as long as there's vacancy in communities. There are 5,000 communities just in California, for example, and many of them have been about 50 percent occupied. Not because of a lack of demand for affordable housing, but because of the sheer upfront cost to residents who want to move in but can't afford installation, transportation, or other costs not included in the home financing. We cracked that code. We solved it by placing the home right there: a three-bedroom, two-bath, cookie-cutter home, ready to go, with easy financing. You don't have to pick out colors or paint. It's turnkey. That's how we go from 50 percent occupancy to 90, dare I say 100 percent, because the demand is really there.

Ali: A quick tangent comparing multifamily: there, you have constant tenant turnover risk. We have a heavy lift up front, but once we have our residents, they're residents for life. What you're renting is really dirt, because they own their homes. I don't have the toilets, the turns, the typical landlord headaches, but I have all the upside: appreciation, tax benefits, trading opportunities, and cash flow. Going back to the point, that model is being done nationwide now, because 50 percent occupancy has been true across the country in primary, secondary, and tertiary markets. Until existing communities are fully or largely absorbed, I think this model will continue to work, and then you'll probably start seeing more development.

Host: Let me make sure I understand. Are you saying that right now, a lot of these communities are only 50 percent occupied?

Ali: Correct. It's a ballpark of 50 to 60 percent, but there are still a lot of them.

Host: Wow. I did not know that. That's brand new information for me. The reason is the cost of buying a home, moving it to the lot, and installing it. So you're providing a turnkey solution where the home is already there, and all they have to say is, I want that one. And you mentioned installation was a challenge because it's not financeable. Is that correct?

Ali: That's right. Typically it hasn't been included in retail financing for a buyer.

Host: So are you now financing that installation through a division that does that financing?

Ali: Thank you for asking. It just gets bundled into the cost of the home. Once the home is already there, my transportation and installation costs are already factored in.

Host: That makes sense. Where do you and your family own? All over the country? Does red state or blue state matter?

Ali: I'm colorblind. I'll go wherever the deal makes sense. I hear the term buy box, and I use it, but I'm not a big fan. I don't believe in being limited. We have to go where the deal makes sense regardless of size or geography. That said, Tim, I'm going to sound contradictory: I'm only in California right now. I know that probably sounds insane to most people, but we've been largely active here since 1981, so I'm in a unique position with a Rolodex going back 45 years in this asset class. Our industry is regulated state by state. In California, it's HCD, Housing and Community Development, and every state has its own agency. You're not going to master 50 of them, so I'd suggest people pick certain markets where they're more knowledgeable. I also like being able to drive to my investment. We saw crazy things like the pandemic, when flying could be difficult. I'm not saying I wouldn't go out of state. I've done deals in Texas and elsewhere. But unlike many people these days, I'm still big on California.

Host: So you look for communities in California with low occupancy, move the homes in, package them turnkey, and sell them. That's your value-add. Is that correct?

Ali: That is correct. That's the standard and most compelling value-add. But we also do capex renovations like you might see in other asset classes. For us, it's amenities like the pool or clubhouse, or underground utilities that need upgrading. All of those offer a cost segregation benefit, which everybody can take advantage of these days with the Big Beautiful Bill. But yes, the homes are the primary value-add.

Host: This opportunity exists wherever there are parks. But since a lot of places don't allow new parks anymore and you have to go pretty far out to build, is there a cap to the opportunities here? How do you see the industry evolving?

Ali: I'm so glad you asked. It has been cost prohibitive to build, you're absolutely right. But recently there have been some developments underway in Florida and Texas, the two other big states with a lot of manufactured housing communities and a lot of support for them. There are rumblings about it in California, though I'm not sure it's taken off yet. As absorption happens in existing communities and demand holds or increases, the numbers will be justified more and more to develop. We're looking at a housing shortage of at least 4 million units in the next year or two, and some people think it's double that.

Ali: Even if that doesn't happen, what I love about this asset class is the many profit centers you can have. You can run it like a Main Street business, a going concern. I'm not in the RV park business by choice, although that's where we started, with a KOA. An RV park is a hospitality business with transient residents. It's not recurring, steady income, so it's higher risk and maybe higher reward. The positive side is daily income and cash flow. You can do that in manufactured housing communities too if you want, building layers of profit centers, whether it's home sales, financing notes, or other layers. So even if development weren't possible and all the units were sold and owned, there would still be ways to create additional income within your portfolio. I love that about my space.

Host: That's amazing. Your family has self-funded a lot of your past deals, and now you're moving into the syndication model. Why the change? Is it a shift in the market, or are you looking to grow faster?

Ali: I appreciate you having that insight, Tim. The reason is simple. It's been 45 years, and my family has PTSD from that journey. We lived in a trailer park to begin with, and it's been tough. Now everybody is, can I say, fat and happy. Most of the family members want to retire and call it a day. We paid our dues as a family, it's all stabilized, and we're looking at possible exits. I'm 56 with three teenagers, and I'm still very passionate about this space, so I'm not done. This is a way for me to transition from the family and bring the knowledge and experience to passive or semi-passive investors who want to get into this space without spending 45 years reinventing the wheel. We have a playbook that works.

Ali: A quick tangent, if I may. This playbook works because it was developed fundamentally. But when things change, and we're about to hit a downturn with the war and the crisis, are you capable of rewriting the playbook or creating a new one? If you're just following someone else's playbook, you might get stuck. I hope the eight generations have trained us for that, because it wasn't always wealth that was transferred. We lost our wealth as a family at least two times in just the last two generations that I know of, because of war and migration, and had to start over. But there was still a huge transfer. When people talk about generational wealth, the assumption is always that it's about capital. To me, that's the least compelling component, and you're an example of it too from your own story. It's the transfer of knowledge, tenacity, ambition, drive, and family values, the habit of thinking generationally. Wealth may come and go because of things out of your control, but it's those other things that carry you on.

Ali: So that was the reason for the transition. Now we can scale even more. I have the playbook and the understanding, and if there's a downturn I'm prepared to act accordingly. Let's share this with as many people as we can and do as many deals as we can. That's why I founded Rise 360 Ventures.

Host: When you're talking to investors, manufactured housing communities have never been really sexy. They're not eye candy like Class A multifamily. How are your investors perceiving these assets?

Ali: As a kid, I grew up going to industry association meetings, and at the risk of being politically incorrect, everyone was an old white male, and there I was sitting in the room with my father. Over the decades, I've seen an amazing shift, from the land banking families that converted their land into mobile home parks, to private equity groups, high-income individuals, lenders, and appraisers all embracing the industry in just the last 10 to 15 years. Along the way there's been education. The quality of the homes has dramatically improved, and the stigma has dramatically reduced. It's not your grandfather's trailer anymore. You may not be able to tell the difference between a stick-built and a manufactured home. Try taking your stick-built home down the freeway at 60 miles an hour. It won't survive. These homes do. So to answer your question, we're the darling now. I don't even have to educate most of my investors. There's a frenzy coming into our space from multifamily, self storage, and industrial, including passive investors who are now aware. It really hasn't been a challenge for me.

Host: With institutions coming in, I know they focus on larger parks. For a new syndicator, what would you recommend? Somewhere on the spectrum from 10 pads to 1,000 pads, where should a new person come in?

Ali: That's a great question. As a syndicator, you wouldn't be able to compete in the primary markets with institutional investors. It wouldn't make sense. Tertiary markets might be a little risky, but they shouldn't be ignored. Where you really want to live, ideally, is secondary or just below secondary, in two- to three-star parks. One star is the least attractive and highest risk, the true trailer park. Five star is the one with a golf course, man-made lakes, and courts. For a syndicator, I'd say at least 100 units for economies of scale, though you can make exceptions down to 50 units, and consider a tertiary market on occasion where it makes sense. I like to position myself above the mom-and-pops and below the big boys. The range used to be $5 million to $50 million, but as the REITs and private equity groups come down lower and the mom-and-pops grow their portfolios, I'd say it's now a little less than $3 million up to $25 million in asset value per community, with exceptions either way. That's where you have the least competition and the most value-add possibility.

Host: Within that segment, are there still a lot of seller financing opportunities, where you can get properties directly from sellers and negotiate financing?

Ali: There's less and less seller financing in secondary markets right now because ample conventional financing is available, whereas before, that's all there really was. In tertiary markets, it's still very much alive. And as the downturn comes, you'll probably see a little more of it in both.

Host: Makes sense. As lenders back off and money tightens, you'll probably see more.

Ali: For those willing to be risk takers and aggressive, you'll do those creative deals with seller financing.

Host: What about the level of management needed? Compared to multifamily, how much management does it take to run these communities?

Ali: You're making it easy for me to look good. Think about one apartment and all the pipes, plumbing, electrical, and walls you have to deal with in each unit, with constant turnover. That's a lot of management. We're largely managing dirt. Sure, there may be a clubhouse or street lamps, and I don't mean to reduce it to just dirt, but I don't have a hundred units with all those nuances. It's less management intensive, which is one of the reasons I love this space. For a specific example, I'm thinking of a portfolio of about a couple thousand units that we operate with in-house management and a team of about 20 to 25 people, including boots on the ground, property managers, and asset managers. We outsource some big jobs, but it's a relatively lean operation. If you look at revenue per employee or net income per employee, I think we shine.

Host: So within your communities, you don't do any park-owned rental homes at all? They're all owner-owned?

Ali: Historically, we haven't and we don't. I've been in this business to avoid the typical landlord headaches. There's one exception I'd consider down the road, in case anyone else is dealing with something similar: a primary market with excessive rent control in a desirable coastal city, where your real estate value is effectively being transferred to the mobile home owner because of locked-in rent control. In those markets, I would consider the multifamily model, where I buy those homes and rent them out. I haven't done that before, but in a downturn, as more apartments get acquired by bigger players, and if I don't want to give up or sell a community, that's a strategy I would consider.

Host: Very helpful. Ali, you mentioned the statistics your team put together comparing different assets. Can you share that on screen, or give out contact information so people can get access to those slides?

Ali: I'm happy to share all of that. The best way is through our website. There's also a free report there, about 80 pages, detailing the economy and how this asset class responds in this type of economy. The website is rise360ventures.com, and you can also find us easily on LinkedIn.

Host: I just posted the link to the website for everyone. Ali, for those who want to connect with you, learn from you, or possibly invest with you, and we have a lot of fund managers and capital raisers on the line who may want to help raise on one of your deals, is the website the best way?

Ali: Yes. Please go to the website and reach out to Colm McEvilly, head of investor relations, or Daniel Nguyen, our president. Either one is the right source. You can also visit our YouTube channel, Rise360, where you can see some of our decks and presentations. It's a relatively new channel, and we're loading everything up as fast as we can. I look forward to working with anybody here.

Host: We're going to open up for questions. If you have questions for Ali, raise your hand digitally. While we wait, Ali, are institutions following the model you're using, or are they doing anything different when they buy these communities?

Ali: The institutional investor is playing the long game. I don't think they follow this model directly, because buying homes is frowned upon by agency lenders and it's a heavy lift. They may outsource to mobile home dealers, giving them the opportunity to sell homes, but they won't do it themselves. The net result is the same, but they're not doing it in-house like we are. And in primary markets, there's less of that activity because most communities are more occupied. They're not at 50 or 60 percent there as much as in secondary and tertiary markets. There is some turnover and infill, but they leave it to dealers.

Host: I see. Ali, thank you so much for this awesome interview.